Dirty Dozen Rankings - Week 12

by Beergut on Nov 19, 2009 5:54 PM CST Comment 16 comments

Our weekly ranking of all Big 12 teams. We're six weeks into conference play, and and we had a surprisingly predictably week, with only one real upset happening. Maybe we're seeing consistency from our conference teams now? Teams are ranked on where I think they are right now in the season. Previous week's rankings are in parenthesis. As always, comments and constructive criticism are welcome.

texas(1): Blowout win over Baylor was expected.
Oklahoma(4): Made A&M look like a high school junior varsity team.
Nebraska(3): Offense woke up against Kansas.
Oklahoma State(5): Solid win over Texas Tech.
Kansas State(2): Upset loss to Mizzou makes North race a tight one.
Texas A&M(6): Looked pathetic in loss to Oklahoma.
Texas Tech(7): Two weeks to prepare for OSU wasn't enough.
Iowa State(10): Solid win over Colorado.
Colorado(8): Completely unable to strong two wins together.
Baylor(9): Too many mistakes to stay in game against texas.
Missouri(11): Nice upset win over Kansas State.
Kansas(12): Fallen so far, so fast, head coach is now being investigated.

Notes: After building up a 40-0 lead at halftime, texas' offense failed to score in the second half against Baylor. Their only second-half TD came on a pick-six...Oklahoma may be starting its build-up to next season. If they win their remaining games against Texas Tech and Oklahoma State, plus their bowl game, they position themselves for a top 10 ranking in next season's preseason top 25...Nebraska's offense actually moved the ball and made it into the end zone last Saturday, but it should be noted it was against Kansas' weak defense...Oklahoma State's season may have disappeared with the injury to Zach Robinson in the fourth quarter. Robinson needs to learn to slide...Despite State's loss to Missouri, I still think they are one of the top two teams in the Big 12 North. That says more about the state of the Big 12 North than it does about Kansas State...A&M's loss to Oklahoma puts them right back where they were following the loss to Kansas State; fans wondering why these players handle adversity so poorly...Maybe Tech needed another bye week to prepare for Oklahoma State. Four losses makes this look like another "typical Tech" season and team...Iowa State is now bowl-eligible with their win over Colorado. Paul Rhoads and his staff have done a terrific job in Ames, and this is only year one...Colorado's coaching search should be intensifying right now. Hawkins does a good job in recruiting, but that doesn't matter if they don't play well for you once they arrive on campus...Baylor was still fighting in the second half, outscoring texas 14-7...Upset win over Kansas State doesn't hide what has been a disappointing season for Missouri...Kansas-Missouri game may decide who is the worst team in the conference.

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Dan Hawkins may not be a great coach, but his team definitely is not quiting.

by miketag on Nov 19, 2009 9:40 PM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs

I don’t understand how aTm and tech both stayed static despite tech’s loss to a ranked osu team by 1 touchdown (and even had a slim opportunity to tie it up at the end) and aTm got obliterated by an unranked ou team. You say “Teams are ranked on where I think they are right now in the season”, so shouldn’t aTm have dropped, since right now in the season they got spanked? And the logic of aTm won the head-to-head is not valid since tech beat two teams ranked higher than them (nebraska and k-state). i’m not saying tech should’ve moved up, because they definitely should not have. But when you admit that aTm’s performance was “pathetic” and “looked like a high school junior varsity team”, most of the time that necessitates dropping a little bit.

I can understand your bias because you’re an aTm fan and you hate tech, but what is the point of having a ranking system if you let that bias get infused this much?

Also, you say mizzou had a nice upset win, but they stayed put at #11. K-State is obviously not the #2 team in the conference (and definitely has not been #2 at any point in the season) but they were ranked that high last week, and mizzou beat them. Shouldn’t they have at least jumped a couple of teams that lost this week?

by pcrawttu on Nov 20, 2009 8:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Tech is below A&M because A&M kicked their asses all over the field in Lubbock

After the drubbing Tech took from A&M, I can’t rank A&M lower than Tech. Add in the fact that Tech played three quarters of mediocre football against Kansas, who I think is one of the worst teams in the conference, and then turned around and lost to Oklahoma State after two weeks to prepare for that game, and you can see why I haven’t moved Tech in the rankings.

I can understand your bias because you’re an aTm fan and you hate tech

One of these days, Tech fans will realize that beng an A&M fan doesn’t automatically mean we hate Tech. I don’t hate Tech; as a whole, I find most of their fans to be annoying, but annoying doesn’t equal hatred.

Missouri is where they are because they lost to Baylor at home two weeks ago.

When doing these rankings, I try to take into consideration who has beaten who, which is why A&M is ranked ahead of Tech and Iowa State. A&M lost to Colorado by 1 point, but it was on the road, and given Colorado’s performance this season, that game looks more like an anomaly, so I didn’t move them up too much.

I Am The 12th Man.com

by Beergut on Nov 20, 2009 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If you read my post, i clearly stated that I think tech definitely shouldn’t have moved up. My argument was more that aTm should’ve moved down. But now that i see how you pick and choose your arguments to rank, it makes sense to me that your bias will never put aTm beneath tech. you apply one credential to one team but not the other.

After the drubbing Tech took from A&M, I can’t rank A&M lower than Tech.

This is understandable, but with that logic and after the drubbing that K-state took from Tech, how is it justifiable to have them ranked higher now?

And why is it ok to have 3 drubbings on your record, OU 65-10…k-state 62-14…arkansas 47-19…but then hold tech to one drubbing whose score was closer than all three of those? Despite tech’s lack of fireworks lately, the three losses to all-ranked teams have all been very close, especially considering the qb problems that have plagued them since the kindle hit.

Again, i acknowledged that tech should not move up, but i’ll deal with some of the inaccuracies in your statements. Last I checked, there are 4 quarters in a game. It says something about a team that can play so mediocre but still win the Kansas game by 3 touchdowns.

As far as the osu game goes, bottom line is they were a 4 point favorite on their home field and tech lost by 7. It was disappointing, but not really too unexpected. Bye weeks are a little overrated. They’re good for rest, but don’t affect the outcome of the game in any way. They can be just as negative as they can be positive.

When doing these rankings, I try to take into consideration who has beaten who, which is why A&M is ranked ahead of Tech and Iowa State.

Again, this argument does not stand when so many teams beat up on each other. Like I said, tech beat k-state and nebraska (at home) but is well below them. aTm lost to colorado but is ahead of them.

that game looks more like an anomaly, so I didn’t move them up too much.

If you’re going to start identifying anomalies, this is where you need to do it for everyone. Tech’s loss to aTm looks like the true anomaly. Highly favored team on home field gives up 52 points and loses by 22. The most points Tech has given up otherwise is 34 to the #2 team in the country and held top offenses of osu and houston to 24 and 29 respectively. Tech’s other losses are by 1, 7, and 10 points to good teams. This game was WAY out of the ordinary, looking at the data.

On the other hand, aTm’s given up at least 30 points a game since september (except one to I-state), including 65, 62, and 47 points, so giving up 35 points to colorado is looking pretty normal.

From below:
bq. we were in the game against OU for a quarter before we had some turnovers and let that adversity destroy us.

This same statement could be said for Tech about the aTm game, but Tech kept it closer. Yet you keep holding on to it. More picking and choosing your information.

All i said was that aTm should’ve dropped a spot or two after the drubbing they took. your obvious bias will not allow you to look at the situation in an objective way, though.

look like another “typical Tech” season and team

well then in this case, Tech should be ranked above aTm based on the “typical” aTm team of the past few years.

by pcrawttu on Nov 20, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the problem with dropping A&M

If I dropped A&M, I would also have to drop Tech, and the real question would be, of the group of teams including ISU, Colorado, Baylor, Missouri, and Kansas, which one of those teams deserves to be ranked ahead of A&M and Tech?

The problem with using the Kandsas State-Tech game as a reference is the fact that y’all blew them out, they blew us out the next week, and then we clobbered you the next week. So, the transitive property, which never works in college football, btw, doesn’t work with that grouping, so you can’t really use that as an argument in rankings.

The fact of the matter is, after losing to Tech, Kansas State started playing good football, and they will face Nebraska for the right to the North title. That is why I have them ranked so highly in my rankings, I think they are a decent team.

I Am The 12th Man.com

by Beergut on Nov 20, 2009 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"If I dropped A&M, I would also have to drop Tech, and the real question would be, of the group of teams including ISU, Colorado, Baylor, Missouri, and Kansas, which one of those teams deserves to be ranked ahead of A&M and Tech?"

Why would you have to drop Tech? And that is not the real question I am asking. I’m arguing that Tech did what they were theoretically supposed to do, barely lose to osu on their field, so I see no reason to not keep them in the same place. ATm got obliterated (for the 3rd time this year) to ou, so it makes sense to drop them a couple spots. A clearly worse loss. Why is it impossible to drop them below tech? If that is what it takes for this week, so be it. these are fluid rankings, so if tech were to lose to ou this week and aTm beats baylor, you can make the necessary adjustments. I think you just can’t bring yourself to lower your team below tech.

"The fact of the matter is, after losing to Tech, Kansas State started playing good football,"

So after they got clobbered, they qualify as playing good football because they clobbered aTm, barely beat ku and beat colorado in pretty unimpressive fashion and lost to ou and mizzou? That is average football to most people. Above average for their expectations, but just average to a normal team.

"The problem with using the Kandsas State-Tech game as a reference is the fact that y’all blew them out, they blew us out the next week, and then we clobbered you the next week. So, the transitive property, which never works in college football, btw, doesn’t work with that grouping, so you can’t really use that as an argument in rankings."

I’m not using the situation as the transitive property. I’m using it as three independent events. Each team had a beat down of another team and a beat down loss, which is just a portion of the entire season. This either nullifies head to head arguments between the three teams or can be seen as each team having a big win and a big loss. If you include one, you must include all, otherwise its merely subjective decision making on your part. If you disqualify tech because its big win over k-state happened a month ago, you have to include aTm’s big loss to ou that happened a week ago.

If you’re convinced that k-state is a great team now because they beat aTm, kansas, and colorado for their best wins, then you are not thinking clearly. Plus they lost to louisiana-lafayette and recently your #11 team mizzou. They don’t have anything near a quality win. While we are talking about quality wins, neither does aTm. It’s best win by far is over a tech team that you think is not so great. At least tech has a road win over nebraska who was ranked at the time and is in the running for the north division crown (with another team tech beat). As a hypothetical question…If Tech were in the north division, would they be #3 in your rankings since they would be first place in that division?

So based on this week’s information so far, Tech has a better record, better win, less bad losses (and less recently), and less of a current losing streak (1 to aTm’s 2). What has aTm done lately besides beat tech a month ago? So the only thing you’re basing your ranking on is your own perception. That is fine, I understand, these are your rankings. but that is also called subjective bias when you take objective information and pick and choose for your own benefit.

by pcrawttu on Nov 21, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Why is it impossible to drop them below tech?

I’ve already explained this; A&M clobbered Tech in Lubbock, so I’m not going to drop A&M below Tech. If I move A&M, I also have to move Tech.

I Am The 12th Man.com

by Beergut on Nov 21, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So, now Tech should be ranked #2 or #3 on your poll......

" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...

by KWashburn on Nov 21, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nope. Here will be his reasoning for the week (and i’m assuming nebraska wins)…Tech beat #2 ou for their worst loss in years (and already beat #3 Nebraska at home which doesn’t matter) so can move up to around #3 behind UT and OSU. BUT, don’t forget that aTm BEAT TECH A MONTH AGO, it would be impossible for Tech to move up that high, so aTm will move up to #3 (because of their beatdown of powerhouse #10 Baylor) and tech will be #4. No other part of the season matters! Only the one game “anomaly” against a non-rival from a month ago. Although this creates a dilemma because that would put aTm over two teams that “clobbered” them, (just last week) ou and k-state. I’m even more curious for the excuses next week if UT really gives it to them.

by pcrawttu on Nov 21, 2009 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ags should drop a slot or two, minimum

“A&M’s loss to Oklahoma puts them right back where they were following the loss to Kansas State; fans wondering why these players handle adversity so poorly…”

For reference, you had A&M ranked dead last in your Dirty Dozen following the K-State loss. Hyperbole aside, that game is starting to look more like the norm than the exception, no? I have to agree (with pcrawttu) that the drubbing we took in Norman warrants some sort of demotion in these rankings, not dead last but certainly not staying at #6.

For one quarter of the OU game, it looked like we’d be able to contend with the (unranked) Sooners if we cleaned it up… Sadly, we weren’t able to do that.

In my opinion, this team’s not proven that they belong in the top-half of the conference. To be sure, the ability is there, they’re just not putting it together consistently. That inconsistency HAS to be considered when you evaluate a team’s standing at any point in the season.

by dallastros_fan on Nov 20, 2009 11:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

The difference is, we came out against KSU and never played well

we were in the game against OU for a quarter before we had some turnovers and let that adversity destroy us.

I took that into consideration when I did these rankings.

I Am The 12th Man.com

by Beergut on Nov 20, 2009 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

IMO, A&M blew out Tech at Lubbock so should not be ranked below them. Personally, I think NU should be ranked #2 b/c I think their defense makes them the second best team. KSU has been playing much better football since beating A&M.

by miketag on Nov 20, 2009 2:49 PM CST via mobile reply actions 0 recs

Tech...

There are now three teams that Texas Tech blew out ahead of Texas Tech in this ranking. Texas A&M is ranked ahead of a team it beat.

So A&M “blows out” Texas Tech by 22 points and it is an immutable truth that A&M is ahead of Tech… but Tech blows out K-State by 52 points, or Oklahoma by 28, or Nebraska by 21 (on the road, mind you) and those three teams are all better than Tech?

This is stupid.

Go register. Or else.

by Skin Patrol on Nov 21, 2009 5:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs