Bias In Preseason Rankings? Obviously.
by Beergut on Jul 16, 2010 9:01 PM CDT
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PrintThanks to the always excellent dimecoverage at BON, I was alerted to this little op-ed piece over at Barking Carnival. The writer Nickel Rover seem to take issue with this preview of Big 12 offenses I did a little while back, so much so that over three weeks later he chooses to attempt to refute my story. Nickel Rover does his own ranking of Big 12 offenses, and.....ends up with A&M ranked #1, too. Rover's big beef appears to be with my ranking of texas' offense at #6; in his own rankings, Rover has them ranked #3 in conference.
His argument against texas is pretty specious, mainly that texas is trying to build around the area of their offense that has failed most consistently in the last few seasons and will consequently see further failure but at a greater cost.
I'm not sure what is specious about this argument: texas was weak running the ball last season and the season before, therefore making the rushing game the focus of your offense is a bad idea. What is deceptive about this argument?
If texas were running the same offense from the shotgun and expecting those same running plays to magically start working he might be on to something but of course it isn’t that simple. texas suddenly discovered a running game in the past when they made Vince Young the starter and began running the zone-read. They discovered a running game when they had Colt actually keep on the inside-zone with Charles in 2007. Context matters. He also refuses to grant Michael Huey starter status from last season and has Tray Allen’s likely presence on the line as a sure sign of failure because of his lack of contribution to this point.
Let's take this line by line:
If texas were running the same offense from the shotgun and expecting those same running plays to magically start working he might be on to something but of course it isn’t that simple.
If the problem was simply the formation which texas runs out of, Rover would have a point here, but the formation isn't the problem. Texas A&M averaged 184 yards per game rushing last season, primarily running out of the shotgun. Oregon, TCU, Florida, and Mississippi State all ran the ball primarily out of the shotgun, and all averaged over 200 yards per game rushing. The problem here isn't merely running the ball out of the shotgun, and changing the formation isn't going to suddenly fix the problem.
texas suddenly discovered a running game in the past when they made Vince Young the starter and began running the zone-read. They discovered a running game when they had Colt actually keep on the inside-zone with Charles in 2007.
Just a clarification here: If you run inside zone, and the QB reads the backside DE and makes a decision to keep the ball, that is zone read, not inside zone.
He also refuses to grant Michael Huey starter status from last season and has Tray Allen’s likely presence on the line as a sure sign of failure because of his lack of contribution to this point.
Listing Hix as the only starter on my preview was a mistake; with Huey returning, texas has two starters coming back on the offensive line that couldn't run block last season, not one. It should also be noted that those two players on the right side of the line that texas couldn't run behind in 2009 are going to be moved to the left side of the line to protect the QB's blindside. The health of Garrett Gilbert is going to rest on Hix and Huey this season; I'm sure this hasn't caused Greg Davis any sleepless night yet. Rover misses the fact that it isn't Tray Allen's presence on the line that would represent failure, it is his presence at an OT position that would represent failure. Allen was one of the top OT recruits in the nation coming out of high school, and might have been considered the top LT recruit in the State of Texas that year. At texas he has been a bust, spending some time at backup guard; when you go from not being good enough to break the depth chart at backup tackle to a spot on the starting line as an OT, that is a reason for concern.
He doesn’t apply that standard when placing A&M at the top and in actually completely neglects to mention their line as a relevant component of the offense. As I’ve said before, the ceiling for an offense’s potential is set by the offensive line. So…let’s not get too excited about A&M while their tackles are both still freshmen.
I didn't mention our offensive line in my preview because our offensive line isn't a concern for me. We return both of our starting guards, and in a conference where 10 of the 12 teams run an even front, talent and experience at the guard position is what matters. As for our starting tackles, I will take Matt Joeckel over any offensive tackle on texas' roster right now, straight up. At right tackle, we'll be looking at a battle between Stephen Barrera, Rhontae Scales, and Jake Matthews for the position; no matter who we end up with, we'll be fine. One of Barrera and Scales could end up backing up Joeckel at LT, too.Rover wants you to downgrade A&M's offensive line because we might start two freshman at the tackle positions, but we should upgrade texas' OL, simply because they are starting an experienced tackle (Hix) who sucks at one position? I think that would meet the definition of specious logic.
While I have texas ranked as the preseason #6 offense in the Big 12, Rover has Oklahoma ranked there. In his explanation, he says:
I’m selling this OL putting it together this year for the kind of rushing attack Wilson needs and I’m selling Landry Jones without a strong running game to carry him.
So, when I downgrade texas' offense because of what I see as a poor decision to change schemes and holes in their offensive line, it is specious logic, but when he downgrades Oklahoma for similar reasons, it is sound logic? Methinks he is just angry I ranked the hated Sooners above his beloved 'sips, no matter what the rationale is.
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Yeah
I noticed that, too.
What is ironic about that is he tried to castigate me for improper use of grammar because I refuse to capitalize ‘texas’ when referring to their school.
The fact that he doesn't recognize installing....
a brand new offensive scheme for the ENTIRE SEASON as a weakness is a disgrace in and of itself.
"Biggest mistake in DFW history?" - Bigger mistake in LSB history.
"Back in Irish's day you had to kill a man before you were taken seriously in polite society." - Aquaman56 06/25/10
well, I wouldn't say it is necessarily brand new
this stuff has always been in Davis’ playbook
he just ignores some pages and emphasizes others in different seasons, depending on the talent they have
Disgrace is maybe a little dramatic. None the less, it’s hard to envision complete success by any team their first year in a new scheme. That being said, Texas has good enough coaches and enough talented players to get past the learning curve faster than the average school. Still, their offense line has to be a concern, and OL problems in a new scheme could quickly spell trouble. The strength of UT this year should be their D.
It is not a new scheme
their QB will just be under center. This “downhill running game” stuff is similar to the whiole “new aggressive scheme on defense” that you always hear in the offseason. Either you have players that can make plays, or you don’t. Scheme makes a little difference but talent will always matter the most. Short of changing a players position, you rarely see wholesale changes in the way a team performs from their scheme. A few years back tu couldn’t run the ball to save their life. They fixed that by putting a 6’5 running back at QB. Unless Gilbert is the second coming of Vince Young, or Traylon Shead truly is the difference maker, I do not expect tu to be a much better running team this year. Still wonder why no one has talked about Chris Whaley who IMO was impressive in the spring game. He isn’t going to make anyone miss but he can run through and around you.
I think
Brian Thomas is gonna start at RT. Barrera is a DL right now.
by miketag on Jul 17, 2010 5:49 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
The A&M offensive line doesn't concern you?
How can you write about the A&M offense and state that the A&M offensive line doesn’t concern you? It was below average last year, you lost 3 seniors and that doesn’t concern you?
A&M had a freshman LT that got absolutely abused last year and was the sole reason for multiple drives failing, and it doesn’t concern you that you’ll probably play another true freshman at LT this year?
A&M was the only team in the division not to have a starting QB go down, the probabilities are not favorable for JJ to stay healthy all year. If JJ goes down, you’re looking at a 09’ Baylor situation.
It was below average last year, you lost 3 seniors and that doesn’t concern you?
“below average” offensive lines don’t produce 184.2 yards per game rushing
321, 267, 132, 59, 375, 190 = our rushing production per game beginning with the Tech game last season
“below average” lines don’t have production like that, especially not five games of 190 or more yds rushing
A&M had a freshman LT that got absolutely abused last year and was the sole reason for multiple drives failing, and it doesn’t concern you that you’ll probably play another true freshman at LT this year?
dammit, hit post too soon
A&M had a freshman LT that got absolutely abused last year and was the sole reason for multiple drives failing, and it doesn’t concern you that you’ll probably play another true freshman at LT this year?
After the Oklahoma State game, we moved Michael Shumard back to LT, where he started the rest of the season. You apparently didn’t pay attention to our offensive line after the fifth game of the season. I have watched Joeckel play this past spring, and he is ready to go. Also, as I pointed out in my post:
We return both of our starting guards, and in a conference where 10 of the 12 teams run an even front, talent and experience at the guard position is what matters.
We’re set at the right spots for our offensive line to be successful.
A&M was the only team in the division not to have a starting QB go down, the probabilities are not favorable for JJ to stay healthy all year.
That may be the worst logic ever posted on this blog; because your QB didn’t get injured last season, it is bound to happen this year? So, since our defense was beyond horrible the last two seasons, it is bound to be terrific this season? Such reasoning has no place in football discussion.
Offensive line production
You’re right about 1 thing I didn’t get to watch many A&M games because there were hardly any televised. I did get to watch A&M vs. Tech, Arkansas, UT, and clips of KSU and what I saw was hardly a productive offensive line.
In the Arkansas game, A&M just got abused and had no answer against an average SEC defense. In the Tech game, Sherman knew that Tech had very good DE’s and he had a weak O-line he called RB draws, QB draws, and shuffle passes the entire game. Props to him for understanding his weakness and Tech’s strength, but winning with draws and shuffle passes doesn’t scream quality offensive line to anyone.
We should do this more often, I enjoy discussions with people who claim starting freshman at the LT position doesn’t concern them and then trying to point out others bad logic.
I did get to watch A&M vs. Tech, Arkansas, texas, and clips of KSU and what I saw was hardly a productive offensive line.
As I pointed out before, we changed our lineup before the Tech game; that would make it after the Arkansas and KSU games then, wouldn’t it? You’re basically saying you formed your opinion using two games that are irrelevant to the conversation.
In the Tech game, Sherman knew that Tech had very good DE’s and he had a weak O-line he called RB draws, QB draws, and shuffle passes the entire game. Props to him for understanding his weakness and Tech’s strength, but winning with draws and shuffle passes doesn’t scream quality offensive line to anyone.
First of all, it is called a shovel pass, not “shuffle”. Second, I really have to question your knowledge of football when you don’t recognize the difference between a run off tackle, a sweep, a draw, and a deisnged QB run.
These clips are from a post I did almost a month ago breaking down an offensive series A&M ran last season, the Hanover Bunch.
Christine Michael scoring TD off right-tackle
Notice how your DTs get buried inside, and one of your “good” DEs gets sealed outside.
That is one run off left tackle, one run off right tackle, and no draws to be found. IIRC, we may have called a draw play to a RB once or twice the whole game, if that.
Here is A&M’s final scoring drive of the game, where we seal the deal.
Final scoring drive against Tech 2009
We run the ball seven times, pass it once. Nowhere in those 8 plays do we run a draw or a shovel pass. We do run inside between the guard and tackle, and kick your ass off tackle, though.
winning with draws and shuffle passes doesn’t scream quality offensive line to anyone.
Having a serious discussion with you about football is a waste of time, because you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. Only a Tech fan would claim the opponent had a weak offensive line after getting half a hundred put on them, losing by over three TDs, and giving up 321 yards rushing.
As for our starting tackles, I will take Matt Joeckel over any offensive tackle on texas' roster right now, straight up.
Beergut, I thought you might enjoy some game film of your boy Matt Joeckel, you know the one you claim you would take over everyone of UT’s tackles.
In this video both the Joeckel boys get absolutely destroyed by Tech signee Jackson Richards. I would watch his hands and footwork closely in this video, and remember he’s trying to protect his brother in this video against a high school defensive end.
I shutter to think what it will look like with Joeckel trying to protect JJ against Arkansas.
Game review
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpfzuzW0nDM
A&M started the game with back-to-back shuffle/shoval(I’ve seen coaches use both in writing)
First score, screen to C. Grey
Second score, dive to C. Grey
Third score, dive to C. Michael(never actually crossed the goal line though)
Now let’s check out the 3:05 mark of the video, one of the multiple called QB draws in the game.
Forth score, dive to C. Grey
Fifth score needed the WR end around fake to create a hole for C. Michael
At the 5:45 mark JJ scores with yet another called QB draw.
Overall 5 turnovers committed by Pott’s and freshman, then a bunch of draws, dives, passing and A&M wins. A&M had a few nice off-tackle plays but overall it was dives, QB/RB draws and passing that A&M won on. Nothing like the off-tackle power running game you claim.
So much for me not knowing what I’m talking about, the draw, dive and quick passing were the keys for the A&M win. Not a strong off-tackle running game by quality offensive linemen. Like I said before Sherman understood his weakness which was the offensive line and called the game appropriately.
sigh
Okay, first of all, every play between the guard and center isn’t automatically a ‘dive’. The second TD which you refer to, when you say Gray scores on a ‘dive’, that’s an inside trap. Even if I accepted your ludicrous classification of every inside running play as a dive, you’re still contradicting your own argument, because you don’t run inside if you have a weak offensive line.
The second TD, where Michael leaps over the plane to score, was also an inside trap.
As for the 3:05 mark, that isn’t a called QB draw, that is a simple read by Jerrod; y’all split your LBs out to help cover the 5 WRs, so you left no one in the middle of the box. That is simply Jerrod making the right decision, and Ruffin McNeill getting outcoached.
Fourth score, inside trap to Gray.
Fifth score, watch it again, that is all on #74 Lee Grimes kicking your DE out and opening the hole, giving Michael the room to get under him and to the second level. Your backside DE and WLB bought the WR motion, but that didn’t matter, b/c they were already backside on a play going completely away from them.
How about the 4:55 mark, where they run outside zone, and the OL opens a nice tunnel for Michael to run through? Notice the terrific job by RG Evan Eike, helping on the double-team before moving to the second level and pinning the Mike LB inside? This is another play where you have only one LB in the box, meaning it is an automatic running down. No screen or draw there.
5:42, freeze the video. See how we have five wideouts, and you have six out to cover them? This means you have four down linemen and one LB against five offensive linemen and the QB, so we’re playing 6-on-5. Again, this is an automatic run call, but we were helped on the play by one of your “good” DEs taking a wide as hell angle on the speed rush, allowing RT Lee Grimes to take him where he wanted to go, which meant a huge hole opened up for Jerrod to run through. Again, this is another example of McNeill getting outcoached, Jerrod making the correct read, and our offensive line executing. If your “good” DEs, had any discipline as all, this wouldn’t be a TD. If you look at the backside (left side), you’ll see the DE there also takes a wide angle on the rush, so Jerrod could have scrambled that way for the first down, too.
All you’ve done here is proved my previous comment, which is that you really don’t know football, even when the video evidence is put right in front of your face.
You're getting there
You’re original post showed three plays where A&M ran off-tackle and you used those as reasoning to why your offensive line was so great against Texas Tech. I claimed it was more about how weak your offensive line was and how Sherman used that against Tech with draws, screens, and quick passing. I provided more examples to support my claim and acknowledged that you did indeed have a few well blocked off-tackle runs.
How you have turned that, and losing 3 starters into “i’m not concerned about the offensive line” is interesting to say the least. A&M has only beat 1 team with a winning record in two whole years of football and a lot of that is due directly to poor offensive line play and depth. For you to state you’re not concerned about it, then tell me I don’t know football speaks volumes.
Guess we’ll just have to wait til the Arkansas game to find out who is right. I’m guessing Arkansas will push your line around just like they did last year, and that if Sherman does start a freshman LT he’ll get abused just like last year.
You go ahead, continue to stick your head in the sand, and tell others they don’t know what they’re talking about.
I don't need to tell others they don't know what they're talking about
you’ve already proved to everyone reading this thread you don’t know what you’re talking about, in a very public fashion
You’re original post showed three plays where A&M ran off-tackle and you used those as reasoning to why your offensive line was so great against Texas Tech
Actually, I showed 9 running plays, including a whole drive full of runs, but who is counting?
I claimed it was more about how weak your offensive line was and how Sherman used that against Tech with draws, screens, and quick passing.
Okay, you don’t run draws and screens because you have a weak offensive line, you run them b/c the opponent has an undisciplined, aggressive defense, and you are using their over-aggressive nature against them. Why do you insist on continually showing how little you know about football? Do you enjoy getting schooled? Are you a masochist? Does the pain of looking stupid bring you pleasure?
I’m going to guess that you didn’t, and considering it wasn’t even televised you’re basing your entire analysis of the game on highlight clips which don’t even show the majority of the plays I’m talking about.
If you were at the game, what you don’t see from the highlights is that Sherman came out with a distinct game plan to run shovel/shuffle passes, draws, and quick passes. It worked, props to him and congrats on the win. One thing it doesn’t prove though is that A&M will have a quality offensive line this year. I don’t believe anyone outside of college station is going to agree with you on that point.
A&M is a below .500 football team with a young inexperienced offensive line that you “are not concerned with”. Good luck with that!
not sure what you're trying to say there
are you asking if I attended the game? No, I did not.
I’m not basing my analysis of the game on highlight clips, I’m basing it on the fact that I’ve probably watched that game in full at least ten times by now, simply in the process of breaking down the film. All of the youtube clips I’ve posted are ones I’ve made off the game DVD, hence you hear Dave South doing play-by-play.
You’re actually going to claim because you were at the game, you know Sherman’s game plan better than he does? Here’s a clue, Einstein, you don’t run draws when you know you can beat someone off-tackle and in the A-gaps, which we did all night. You seem to be completely oblivious to what happened that game, and instead of admitting you are wrong, you’re stubbornly clinging to your original argument, despite evidence overwhelmingly showing that you’re wrong.
The fact that you stubbornly cling to this argument despite all evidence proving that you’re wrong shows that not only do you lack knowledge of football, but you are lacking in the ability to have a rationale discussion, because you refuse to acknowledge that you’re wrong even when it has been proven beyond all doubt.
Never claimed that I know Sherman's game plan better than he does
Where are you getting this?
I admitted that A&M had some nice off-tackle runs, I’ve also shown multiple draws, screens, and shovel/shuffle supporting my stance. You down play all of these as using them against an unorganized Tech defense who just blindly rushed up the field, when in fact some where used because your line was getting beat, even without Tech’s best defensive player in the game. I’ve also given multiple props to Sherman for his game plan. You haven’t come off your hard line stance at all, yet say that I’m lacking in rational discussion.
The original discussion was that A&M’s offense was below average, the Tech game was only a small part of that. You’ve latched onto the Tech game because you think it helps your overall argument. In the end your team has yet to break .500 under your head coach, and a large part of that is due to poor offensive line play, do you disagree?
The problem is that you’re showing off your stubborn ignorance and arrogance by going against literally everyone else claiming how the A&M offensive line is not a concern.
But hey, if this were an argument about “shovel” or “shuffle” passes, or dives and traps you crushed me bro, congrats!!
I’ll be back after Arkansas and every other decent defense crushes your offensive line to say I told you so because let’s face it just like the majority of Aggies your arrogance and ignorance makes it too easy.
I’ve also shown multiple draws, screens, and shovel/shuffle supporting my stance.
You have yet to show a single draw or shovel pass to support your stance, much less multiple instances. Please show me examples of the “multiple draws” we ran in this game, because I haven’t seen them yet. You have given one example of a screen pass, not multiple. If there were more screen passes being thrown, you haven’t shown them yet. So far, you have one example, a screen pass, to support your argument. I’ve given you multiple examples of why you are wrong, but you refuse to listen, because you don’t know the difference between a draw, an inside trap, and a dive play.
You down play all of these as using them against an unorganized Tech defense who just blindly rushed up the field, when in fact some were used because your line was getting beat, even without Tech’s best defensive player in the game.
I didn’t say we used them because your defense was undisciplined, I said the reason you use draws and screens and shovel passes is because you are playing an undisciplined defense, not because of a weak offensive line, which is the basis of your whole argument.
You haven’t come off your hard line stance at all, yet say that I’m lacking in rational discussion.
I haven’t changed my stance because I’m right. You’re the one trying to argue that a team averaged 224 yards rushing per game over the second half of the season had a ‘weak’ offensive line. Are you going to try to tell me that we rushed for 375 yards on Baylor based on draws, shovel passes, and screens, too?
The original discussion was that A&M’s offensive line was below average, the Tech game was only a small part of that. You’ve latched onto the Tech game because you think it helps your overall argument.
No, I’m using the Tech game because it is a fairly blatant example of our offensive line dominating. I used Tech as an example because it is one of only four A&M games you watched last year, as you admitted. Would you rather talk about Iowa State? Baylor? texas?
In the end your team has yet to break .500 under your head coach, and a large part of that is due to poor offensive line play, do you disagree?
Yes, I disagree. The major reason we finished under .500 last season was because of our defense. We had three games last season where we scored over 30 points, and still lost; you really think that is because of the offensive line?
Correction to the above post
“The original discussion was that A&M’s offense was below average”
Should have been “The original discussion was that A&M’s offensive line was below average”
This is not getting old
I’ve shown you multiple draw plays, see above youtube video I posted. Don’t know why you’re trying to ignore them, I guess it helps your point if you just completely ignore certain plays. I don’t have any game film, but I distinctly remember A&M having multiple shovel passes to RB’s, you have the film, I guarantee you they are there if you watch.
“I haven’t changed my stance because I’m right. You’re the one trying to argue that a team averaged 224 yards rushing per game over the second half of the season had a ‘weak’ offensive line. Are you going to try to tell me that we rushed for 375 yards on Baylor based on draws, shovel passes, and screens, too?”
I specifically stated that A&M had a below average offensive line, and lost 3 starters off of it yet you’re “not concerned”. I told you that due to A&M lack of being able to get themselves televised I only watched a few games. You’re making an argument and coming with Baylor when I stated I watched the Arkansas, Tech, Texas, and clips from K-State really doesn’t help your argument. They’re Baylor. Why are you not addressing the line play vs. Arkansas or K-State? Oh that’s right it doesn’t help your argument so you would rather use Baylor, and make the excuse that A&M changed up the offensive line in the second half of the season. Is that the reason A&M lost 4 of it’s last 5 games, because they improved the O-line in the second half??
The best thing about this argument is that even a upper level 10 win team who reloads every year would be a little concerned about replacing 3 starters on the offensive line. A&M has yet to break .500, there offensive line got absolutely abused by quality defenses who were healthy, and they are losing 3 starters from that yet you’re “not concerned”. That’s really what this argument is about A&M’s offensive line quality in 2010 after losing 3 starters, yet you have turned it into a technical argument about shovel vs. shuffle, and dive vs. draw.
I don’t have the A&M vs. Tech game film so I’m not going to win an argument about how many off-tackle vs. draw, screen, or shovel passes where called because I can’t look at tape. Fortunately, this isn’t about that, it’s about A&M offensive line in 2010. I believe they will just be average after losing all their starts and relying on a true freshman who got abused by Jackson Richards. I don’t think anyone outside of the A&M fan base is going to agree with your claim that A&M will have some quality offensive line play. A&M will put up a lot of yards, but it’s not like they are going to do it behind road graters Wisconsin style. They will destroy their weak OOC opponents, and struggle to run against UT, OU, and Nebraska. I see A&M as an 8 win team this year, mainly because you don’t have the personnel up front on defense or offense and that’s been the same problem A&M has had for years. No reason to be concerned though, right?
this is part of the problem
I’ve shown you multiple draw plays, see above youtube video I posted.
There wasn’t a single draw play on that youtube video. This goes back to what I’ve said before; you don’t know what you’re talking about, because you don’t even know what you’re watching.
I specifically stated that A&M had a below average offensive line, and lost 3 starters off of it yet you’re "not concerned".
I’ve repeatedly said the reason I’m not concerned is because we return two starters (both offensive guards) at the most important positions on the line when facing even-front defenses, which is what 10 of the other 11 teams in the Big 12 run. I’m not sure why this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp?
Why are you not addressing the line play vs. Arkansas or K-State? Oh that’s right it doesn’t help your argument so you would rather use Baylor, and make the excuse that A&M changed up the offensive line in the second half of the season.
I’m not arguing that our line play was terrific against Arkansas or Baylor. We changed our starting line going into the Tech game, and that made all the difference. Look at the starting line for the Arkansas game, the Kansas State game, and the Tech game. See the difference? It isn’t an excuse, IT IS A FACT.
I don’t think anyone outside of the A&M fan base is going to agree with your claim that A&M will have some quality offensive line play.
I think it is somewhat telling that no one has chimed in to agree with your stance, don’t you?
That’s really what this argument is about A&M’s offensive line quality in 2010 after losing 3 starters, yet you have turned it into a technical argument about shovel vs. shuffle, and dive vs. draw.
This whole argument started because you claimed we had a below-average offensive line last year, and I pointed out that we didn’t. Below-average offensive lines don’t average 184 yds rushing per game for an entire season. You then make the ludicrous claim that the only reason we were successful running the ball against Tech is because we ran RB draws, QB draws, and screens. When I point out the inaccuracy of that statement, you now claim I’m trying to turn this into a technical argument? You’re the one who made the ludicrous statement based on a your ignorance of football, not me.
A&M will put up a lot of yards, but it’s not like they are going to do it behind road graters(sic) Wisconsin style.
Well, now you’re contradicting yourself, because it is kind of hard to put up lots of yards if you have a “just average” offensive line. If we’re putting up a lot of yards and points, it would stand to reason our line is pretty good. Which is it?
As for not being like Wisconsin, I sure as hell hope not; we pass the ball a helluva lot more than they do, and a lot more effectively. I don’t want our line to be like Wisconsin’s, I want them to be a lot more versatile than that.
They will destroy their weak OOC opponents, and struggle to run against texas, OU, and Nebraska.
Like we struggled against texas last season with our “below average” offensive line? 190 yds rushing doesn’t seem like “struggling” to me, but I’m sure that is b/c of all the draws and screens we ran, right? [/sarcasm]
typo
I’m not arguing that our line play was terrific against Arkansas or Baylor.
That should read “against Arkansas or Kansas State.”
let's look at some third party opinions
You’ve already seen one, you wrote a post about it and tried to use the ole “he lacks knowledge of football” because they didn’t agree with your take. I believe they ranked the A&M offensive line close to the very bottom of the Big 12.
Now let’s take a look at another third party unbiased opinion.
This is Kiper talking about JJ’s draft status.
“Mel Kiper’s Take
He has incredible size and a tremendous arm, with accuracy that’s really starting to progress. Earlier, he went through some difficulties that were partly due to an offensive line that couldn’t protect him adequately, but that’s also added some escapability and the ability to keep plays alive. "
Still not concerned?
no
the fact that you think Mel Kiper is a valid source or that you think this supports your argument only proves my earlier point
This is an Aggie blog
Did you honestly think anyone else was going to come to a blog read by mostly Aggies and agree that A&M will have a below average offensive line?
You might not agree with the quality of the sources I have pointed out, but you really can’t deny the quantity. The vast majority of material out there agrees with me and disagrees with you, A&M’s offensive line is in the bottom half of the Big 12, and I think most would agree it’s below average. You don’t go 10-15 with bad defense and a quality offensive line. You and whatever Aggies you can convince to agree with you are on your own thinking your offensive line is not a concern.
As for the draw plays, I pointed out two in the video both QB’s draws, don’t know why you’re trying to ignore them for the 4th post in a row, guess it helps your argument if you just completely ignore the plays that count against your argument. Or you’ll acknowledge them, but claim you have a great offensive line, JJ is just excellent at reading the defense and took off on his own. Convenient, to ignore all the plays I pointed out, ignore the 6-7 record, claim you changed the line up after the first half of the season, yet ignore how you lost the last 4 of 5, then claim you’re right and anyone who disagrees “doesn’t know football”. A low rent cop out.
You can argue all day if you want but you won’t find very many that’s willing to claim that A&M has had a quality offensive line the last two years or will have a good one in 2010. You’ll figure that out after the Arkansas game, let’s just hope you’re man enough to admit they are average at best after they lose to every healthy, quality defense they face.
How do you explain Texas Tech?
“Well, now you’re contradicting yourself, because it is kind of hard to put up lots of yards if you have a "just average" offensive line.”
I don’t consider any of Texas Tech’s offensive lines great(the 08’ one was close, but not great), but they consistently led the entire NCAA in yardage every year. That really doesn’t say anything about the quality of their offensive line, they had a good system in place to take advantage of their weaknesses(just like Sherman in Lubbock). Tech had some good linemen over the years and some that are playing in the NFL, but ALL of them put up lot’s of yards. Do you consider all of them quality offensive lines? Do you agree that you can put up a lot of yards with an average offensive line?
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